The Aruba Forums
It is currently Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:28 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Having difficulty using this Board?
Click here for our Forum Support System
Forgot your password? Click Here



CHECK OUT OUR RECENTLY ENHANCED ARUBATOURISM.COM WEBSITE

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:28 pm 
Offline
Prolific Very Helpful
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:12 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Niagara Falls Canada
As of today, Aruba is currently in 4th position WORLDWIDE for per capita # cases of Covid 19.

One week ago, Aruba was in 10th position. 3 days ago, in 7th position. Moving up the charts very quickly now.

At the same time, Aruba is #25 worldwide in per capita # of tests. This isn't a good metric.

For the life of me, I do not understand why the Aruba government has not adopted further public health protocols, mandatory closures, or even lockdown. Why not try to get on top of this instead of allowing the # to continue to row.

What intelligent traveler is looking to vacation in a country with a higher rate of Covid 19 infection than they would face at home?

At this point, it could be argued that the Aruba government has one hell of a nerve requiring tourists to submit PCR tests when in fact nearly all of us would be traveling to a country with a higher rate of infection than the country in which we reside.

They closed down very quickly in March over a relatively small number of cases, which was the right thing to do. But this? This seems like letting a forest fire rage and just throwing in the towel on the winter season.

Every bulletin board seems loaded with longtime repeat visitors either renting out or selling their weeks.

The tourist board and government information pages don't even seem to have been updated in weeks.

Feels as though for the most part, they have given up on containing this. That would be great if "herd immunity" was actually possible but there's no jurisdiction on the planet, thus far, that has been able to accomplish it. Longterm immunity may not even be possible. And, the cost of allowing 60% of the population to be exposed could be very high, in deaths and in new chronic medical conditions that are expensive to treat and medicate.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:23 pm 
Offline
Prolific

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 12:59 am
Posts: 277
To appreciate the " cunucu news", one must look into the happy island politics...
The PM had opened the social clubs/ bars with hopes of providing activity plus an income $$$, not expecting the disaster that followed. What is causing all this confusion, is that Aruba is broke...within 2 weeks the gov. Is out of funds, to get additional loans from holland, the pm has to agree to controls that basically resort back to Colonial days, under thd mother-country.
The pm is the niece of Betico Croes, the liberator, that broke the dutch colonial chain....and now to save Aruba she would have to rechain Aruba....that is the mayor quandry, inland.
Those that control the $$$ had all signed up for chaining, the people, cunuqueros, do not want that to occurr !!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:51 pm 
Offline
Extra Helpful Expert

Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:46 am
Posts: 4330
Location: Arlington, Mass.
Somewhere over the last several months the Netherlands loaned Aruba about 62 million gilders (or florins??) in two separate loans. Now, you say that in two weeks the Aruban Government will be broke.
All that combined with mega poor pandemic management among her residents, leads me to ask:
How true are the above two posts?

It's no real secret that the government is not too good with money management. But 62 mil???

Thank you.

_________________
Aruba-"Y"-Guy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:20 am 
Offline
Extra Helpful Expert
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:17 pm
Posts: 7681
Time for an Aruban gofundme page.

_________________
It's a simple case of Mind over Matter.
I don't Mind and you don't matter. Brother Barry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:52 am 
Offline
Extra Helpful Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:01 am
Posts: 6261
Location: The Netherlands
Well, to react on the cunucu news about the Dutch loans. The Dutch government is willing to provide further loans to Aruba at a very low, non existing rate. What they ask in return is the installment of a surveillance body. This is not falling out of the blue sky. The Netherlands is asking for a long time to have a more prudent spending pattern than the government has now. This means less public servants (by comperance there are more public servants than in the Netherlands), less high salaries (some of the public servants have higher salaries than ministers, and the members of parliament have higher salaries than the ones in the Netherlands- not to mention the very luxerious pension plans) and good governance instead of greasing the hands of friends and family. Up until now Aruba refused to comply to any of these polite questions. Now that the Dutch tax payers money might continue to flow to Aruba, it is only natural that the Dutch government want to go to the root cause of the enormous debt that Aruba was able to build up. And that would be colonialism? There are many people on Aruba that agree it is time that the Dutch step in after so many years of mismanagement. But hey, if you don’t want to take the offer, you are free not to. Aruba can try to loan against a high interest or go bankrupt. But don’t expect the Dutch to pay with hard earned tax money of its citizens and just shut up. It is time the Aruba politicians grow up and take their responsability.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:10 am 
Offline
Prolific Very Helpful

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:52 pm
Posts: 630
Location: Canada
Sounds very reasonable .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:31 am 
Offline
Extra Helpful Expert

Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:46 am
Posts: 4330
Location: Arlington, Mass.
"WOW", DD! A very well stated report from a Netherlands citizen regarding a place you very obviously love!

I do not know nor have I read any real testimony that says there is some Government oversight watching this and other BB's. In my opinion, they would be reckless if they did NOT read in here and other BB's on a daily basis. Where else are they going to learn the pulse of those tourists who are becoming leery about all involved with making that trip.

If all you say about patronage down there is true, at the levels you describe, then I think it would behoove the rulers and residents down there to accept all the terms put forth by the Netherlands Government and accept yet another loan to help keep them solvent..... and STAY solvent!

_________________
Aruba-"Y"-Guy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:36 am 
Offline
Extra Helpful Expert
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:17 pm
Posts: 7681
DD, sounds like you are describing American politicians except our politicians get a lot more all of course issued by thems them for them.

Sure your politicians and governmental officials in the Netherlands give themselves the same perks.

Based on numbers of Aruban Covid cases and lack of tourists it's going to be a LONG time if ever till Aruba gets back on it's feet.

_________________
It's a simple case of Mind over Matter.
I don't Mind and you don't matter. Brother Barry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:38 am 
Offline
Extra Helpful Expert

Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:46 am
Posts: 4330
Location: Arlington, Mass.
arubajoey wrote:
Time for an Aruban gofundme page.


That is not an unreasonable idea. If word could spread, if other countries could get wind of this idea, if someone could set it up in a secure way, then why not? There certainly is real need down there!
Then all they'd have to do is create good management of spending, salaries, and incomes via tourism. Get rid of all the immense government patronage!

_________________
Aruba-"Y"-Guy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:02 am 
Offline
Prolific Very Helpful
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:12 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Niagara Falls Canada
DutchDushi has raised perfectly valid points.

In reality, I have to think that the self-governance associated with Aruba's "status aparte" comes at an extremely high cost because there is no economy of scale for the needed infrastructure.

Covid-19 will prove to be a game-changer for many households, communities, businesses, and even countries. There are immediate costs associated with this pandemic, lost revenue from shutdown and long term drop in tourism and other revenue generating activities, and there will be long term costs because we now know that survivors of Covid-19 are experiencing new chronic conditions such as heart disease, reduced kidney and pulmonary function, and others.

We know there are a number of viruses that in fact go dormant when one appears to have 'recovered'. These can then surface years or decades later as an entirely new range of symptoms. Chicken Pox, for example, can return in one's mature years as very painful and debilitating Shingles. This can require expensive health care, medications, and even surgery.

We don't know the long term impact of Covid 19 precisely because it is a "novel coronavirus". So no assumptions can be made one way or the other about the long term impact on health, and on healthcare costs.

What we know at this point is that Aruba is experiencing one of the highest rates of community spread on the planet, courtesy of that #4 position for # cases per capita. This is not good. At the same time, Aruba sits at #25 in the world for # tests per capita, which makes it very likely that the actual number of cases is unknown and higher than we are seeing.

Any prudent tourist can easily find this information. Most will not choose to travel to a destination with higher rate of Covid-19 than is the case at home. Perhaps Aruba will still be attractive to those from "hot spot" states or countries, because the risk is equalized. But otherwise? What I see are longtime timeshare owners dumping their weeks either for rent or for sale or both. These loyal repeat visitors form the backbone of Aruba's famed "revisit rate" and are generally a bit on the affluent side (Aruba is not a poor man's island destination). They are not going to risk their health and the health of their loved ones for a couple of weeks in the sun. If they don't have pre-existing chronic conditions already, they are not looking to gain the kind of long-term chronic conditions that are showing up in previously healthy Covid-19 survivors.

Many of us have taken a direct financial hit from Covid-19. People are losing their homes, their businesses, and their savings. Aruba may have to face the simple fact that this pandemic changes everything. It's a reality check. The current state of "Status Aparte" may not be a financially viable model for the island going forward. It's clear that even when tourism was at its height, not enough money was stashed in the piggy bank for a rainy day. Well, it's pouring rain now and based on current numbers the coming "high season" seems unlikely to achieve the targets the government had set.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:15 am 
Offline
Prolific

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 12:59 am
Posts: 277
Thank you DD for an accurate response. That is exactly what was sollicited, preferably from a highly regarded Dutch person. There is no need to shut up, clarity to this gov. waste and corruption is required. Hopefully, our visitors would see more than just " rose colored" happy island.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:54 pm 
Offline
Extra Helpful Expert

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:31 pm
Posts: 1702
dutchdushi wrote:
Well, to react on the cunucu news about the Dutch loans. The Dutch government is willing to provide further loans to Aruba at a very low, non existing rate. What they ask in return is the installment of a surveillance body. This is not falling out of the blue sky. The Netherlands is asking for a long time to have a more prudent spending pattern than the government has now. This means less public servants (by comperance there are more public servants than in the Netherlands), less high salaries (some of the public servants have higher salaries than ministers, and the members of parliament have higher salaries than the ones in the Netherlands- not to mention the very luxerious pension plans) and good governance instead of greasing the hands of friends and family. Up until now Aruba refused to comply to any of these polite questions. Now that the Dutch tax payers money might continue to flow to Aruba, it is only natural that the Dutch government want to go to the root cause of the enormous debt that Aruba was able to build up. And that would be colonialism? There are many people on Aruba that agree it is time that the Dutch step in after so many years of mismanagement. But hey, if you don’t want to take the offer, you are free not to. Aruba can try to loan against a high interest or go bankrupt. But don’t expect the Dutch to pay with hard earned tax money of its citizens and just shut up. It is time the Aruba politicians grow up and take their responsability.


I get the sentiment about having some control as far as the money is spent, but in the end do the Dutch really have the option to just say "no"? I think I read here that they might not want a mass exodus of impoverished citizens coming to the Netherlands.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: # 4 in the world
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:01 am 
Offline
Extra Helpful Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:01 am
Posts: 6261
Location: The Netherlands
I think the Dutch have the option to say “no” more than the Aruban government.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: noradnil and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group