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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:07 pm 
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Junior

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DD is being libertarian about masks because The Netherlands doesn't require its citizens to wear masks.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:28 pm 
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arubajoey wrote:
DD, I'm confused. The Dutch Constitution mentions the wearing of masks? WOW! did they have foresight. Hundreds of years before Covid-19. Did they get the information from Nostrodamus?


AJ, you beat me to the punch. I am neither a legal nor constitutional scholar. However, from previous posts I do not believe Dutch Duschi is either. The closest thing I could find in the Constitution of the Netherlands regarding this topic is the following of which Item 2 appears to give businesses the right to establish and enforce their rules/guidelines when inside their premises. The Marriott Surf Club letter appears to adhere to this since they are only requiring people to wear masks when they are inside the public spaces of the property.

Fundamental Rights - Chapter 1; Section Article 6

1. Everyone shall have the right to profess freely his religion or belief,
either individually or in community with others, without prejudice to his
responsibility under the law.
2. Rules concerning the exercise of this right other than in buildings and
enclosed places
may be laid down by Act of Parliament for the protection
of health, in the interest of traffic and to combat or prevent disorders.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:03 pm 
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Location: Alto Vista, Aruba
I would also suggest the following practical matters:

- we all know the lifeblood of the island is tourism, and the Big Player that influence the government is AHATA. Who is the biggest member of AHATA, with the most hotel rooms?

- perhaps in the courts in Aruba (or the Netherlands), the Government could prevail - but there is also (perhaps more importantly) the "court of public opinion." Would GOA really want to come off looking like they cared less for public safety than the hotels?

- finally, law suits are tricky things. I would imagine an argument that the human rights of the employees were being put at risk by the GOA trying to overrule the workplace safety rulings might find some sympathy in European courts (US courts would be less inclined to care about the hazy "human rights" concept, but I think the Netherlands would take that seriously).

I hope everyone involved agrees that compromise and negotiation is a better way to resolve this if it turns into a conflict.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:43 pm 
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All I did was giving information about the Dutch Constitution and the argument that is going on about if you can mandate people to wear masks. No, Joey, there is no mention of masks in our Constitution, but article 10 of our Constitution declares that everybody has the right that his or her personal privacy is obeyed.

I do have in fact a degree in Dutch Law, but I was just stating what professors and other specialists in the Dutch Constitution are saying on this point. And that was about mayors that want to make masks mandatory in certain parts of their city. And mayors have legal rights if it comes down on invading somebodies privacy. Private companies have not.

I think it is too bad that if just factual information is giving people react out of their own opinions. I am nowhere stating what my view is on things. I was just saying that what Marriott is doing might be overstepping Dutch Constitutional law and might not hold in court. Jeez people, lighten up.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:17 pm 
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Mask are required on public transportation in the Netherlands. Yea Yea I know 8) buses don’t count in the Dutch constitution .


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:32 pm 
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dutchdushi wrote:
All I did was giving information about the Dutch Constitution and the argument that is going on about if you can mandate people to wear masks. No, Joey, there is no mention of masks in our Constitution, but article 10 of our Constitution declares that everybody has the right that his or her personal privacy is obeyed.

I do have in fact a degree in Dutch Law, but I was just stating what professors and other specialists in the Dutch Constitution are saying on this point. And that was about mayors that want to make masks mandatory in certain parts of their city. And mayors have legal rights if it comes down on invading somebodies privacy. Private companies have not.

I think it is too bad that if just factual information is giving people react out of their own opinions. I am nowhere stating what my view is on things. I was just saying that what Marriott is doing might be overstepping Dutch Constitutional law and might not hold in court. Jeez people, lighten up.


Actually, you previously gave more than an opinion. You stated Marriott mandating the wearing of masks is against the Dutch constitution. I have no problem with someone stating the views of one who is well versed on a topic. You might have wanted to clarify that earlier than stating Marriott and any other private company was in violation of one’s privacy by mandating the wearing of a mask. I would venture there are legal scholars who feel it is not in violation of the constitution.

Regardless, what is important is that all of us should do what we can to help stop the spread of the virus. If the experts say wearing masks is one way to do that, then so be it, I’ll wear a mask.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:54 pm 
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I have yet to read anything about the Dutch Constitution being threatened in regards masks . I did read this
"From a medical point of view, there is no evidence of a medical effect of wearing face masks, so we decided not to impose a national obligation," said Dutch Medical Care Minister Tamara van Ark late Wednesday, after a meeting with health experts and mayors.

So if they find evidence that supports masks warding off the evil Covid 19 would they make it obligatory ?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:48 am 
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jaccli wrote:
Mask are required on public transportation in the Netherlands. Yea Yea I know 8) buses don’t count in the Dutch constitution .


It is the Dutch national government who made this decision, not the public transportation companies. That is the big difference. We are looking to the first court cases from people who won’t follow this rule, and professionals say that there is a big chance that these people will win their court case.

The only way that maybe under Dutch law you can mandate people to wear masks is if government makes a special crisis law. They are working on that right now, but even this will not mean that government can force you do to anything. That is how a democratic rule of law works. And as far as I can see, things aren’t that different in the USA, since there seems no forced mandate to wear masks if I am correct. Why would Aruba be different?

You can say whatever you want, but none of you is an expert on the Dutch Consitution. I prefer to think that people that studied law and are well versed in it have more knowledge than you all. But it seems that giving factual information is not wanted if it goes against private opinions. I will therefore refrain from giving further factual information.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:59 am 
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I agree with the Netherlands approach on how it's handling Covid -19 . There is no proof that masks work and it's complete folly that countries are telling its citizens to put one on and go on as all is normal . Social distancing and avoiding people is the only way to be sure you have a chance not to get this .


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:51 am 
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So people who won't go to the Netherlands.

1) The Lone Ranger
2) Batman
3) Green Hornet
4) Phantom of the Opera
5) Masquerade party goers
6) Bank robbers
7) Jason from Halloween movies
8)The killer from Scream movies

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I don't Mind and you don't matter. Brother Barry


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:21 am 
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arubajoey wrote:
So people who won't go to the Netherlands.

1) The Lone Ranger
2) Batman
3) Green Hornet
4) Phantom of the Opera
5) Masquerade party goers
6) Bank robbers
7) Jason from Halloween movies
8)The killer from Scream movies


None of them will be missed.... :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:30 pm 
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dutchdushi wrote:
arubajoey wrote:
So people who won't go to the Netherlands.

1) The Lone Ranger
2) Batman
3) Green Hornet
4) Phantom of the Opera
5) Masquerade party goers
6) Bank robbers
7) Jason from Halloween movies
8)The killer from Scream movies


None of them will be missed.... :lol:


Good one Ingrid! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:46 pm 
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ann wrote:
dutchdushi wrote:
arubajoey wrote:
So people who won't go to the Netherlands.

1) The Lone Ranger
2) Batman
3) Green Hornet
4) Phantom of the Opera
5) Masquerade party goers
6) Bank robbers
7) Jason from Halloween movies
8)The killer from Scream movies


None of them will be missed.... :lol:


Good one Ingrid! :lol:


Ditto! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:40 pm 
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ardy. wrote:
ann wrote:
dutchdushi wrote:
arubajoey wrote:
So people who won't go to the Netherlands.

1) The Lone Ranger
2) Batman
3) Green Hornet
4) Phantom of the Opera
5) Masquerade party goers
6) Bank robbers
7) Jason from Halloween movies
8)The killer from Scream movies


None of them will be missed.... :lol:


Good one Ingrid! :lol:

Ditto! :lol:

:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:12 am 
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I can understand our Dutch sister comment on the Lone Ranger and Batman but you Americans?

All I have to say is "HI HO SILVER AWAY!"

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I don't Mind and you don't matter. Brother Barry


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