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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:55 pm 
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Looks like Marriott properties in the US, Canada, and Caribbean - including Aruba - are now mandating the use of masks in all public spaces, including at restaurants and pools. You're only supposed to take them off while seated, while eating, or while in the water.

Similarly, Hilton properties (in the US initially, but rolling out world-wide) are also mandating masks in public areas.

It's been reported that guests at the Marriott properties here in Aruba (including the Ritz Carlton) have received notifications that the mask policy will be enforced starting (perhaps?) tomorrow. Caveat: I am not staying at these properties, so I have no first-hand knowledge, but I have seen copies of the letter sent out by the Ritz, and the Marriott Bonvoy web site has also been updated to include Caribbean properties in the mask mandate. Similarly, I do not have any first hand knowledge of the Hilton's plans (if any), other than hearsay and what's on the Hilton corporate website.

While I would have preferred the government of Aruba to be the one mandating masks, the Prime Minister recently announced that they won't do so unless and until there's community spread (which there doesn't appear to be at present). So it's nice to see these hotel chains are stepping up to follow the CDC guidelines to keep their guests, and locals, safe.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:27 pm 
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Since you are in Aruba are the locals wearing masks when in public.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:16 am 
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I wonder if this holds up in court. You can’t just bypass Aruban law. Aruba, as part of the Dutch Kingdom, must uphold the Dutch Constitution. As this is a breach of privacy, you can’t force people to wear masks if this is not put down in general law or in a special temporary crisis law made my the government. Aruba does not follow CDC, they follow the RIVM and the OMT in the Netherlands. Although we now have the rule that in certain circumstances mayors can order wearing facemask (although some specialists in law say this will not hold up in court as it is against the Constitution), it is only them who can give this order. Not private companies. This could become interesting!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:47 am 
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Quote:
arubajoey

Since you are in Aruba are the locals wearing masks when in public.


no, they are not

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:21 am 
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bryanzs wrote:
Looks like Marriott properties in the US, Canada, and Caribbean - including Aruba - are now mandating the use of masks in all public spaces, including at restaurants and pools. You're only supposed to take them off while seated, while eating, or while in the water.

Similarly, Hilton properties (in the US initially, but rolling out world-wide) are also mandating masks in public areas.

It's been reported that guests at the Marriott properties here in Aruba (including the Ritz Carlton) have received notifications that the mask policy will be enforced starting (perhaps?) tomorrow. Caveat: I am not staying at these properties, so I have no first-hand knowledge, but I have seen copies of the letter sent out by the Ritz, and the Marriott Bonvoy web site has also been updated to include Caribbean properties in the mask mandate. Similarly, I do not have any first hand knowledge of the Hilton's plans (if any), other than hearsay and what's on the Hilton corporate website.

While I would have preferred the government of Aruba to be the one mandating masks, the Prime Minister recently announced that they won't do so unless and until there's community spread (which there doesn't appear to be at present). So it's nice to see these hotel chains are stepping up to follow the CDC guidelines to keep their guests, and locals, safe.


The letter from Surf Club management mandating masks Be worn when inside was posted by a member on the Aruba Surf Club Marriott Facebook group


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:30 am 
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dutchdushi wrote:
I wonder if this holds up in court. You can’t just bypass Aruban law. Aruba, as part of the Dutch Kingdom, must uphold the Dutch Constitution. As this is a breach of privacy, you can’t force people to wear masks if this is not put down in general law or in a special temporary crisis law made my the government. Aruba does not follow CDC, they follow the RIVM and the OMT in the Netherlands. Although we now have the rule that in certain circumstances mayors can order wearing facemask (although some specialists in law say this will not hold up in court as it is against the Constitution), it is only them who can give this order. Not private companies. This could become interesting!


No shoes, No shirts, No masks, No Service.

The issue, regardless of any country’s laws, would be if there is something specific regarding that one cannot mandate actions when that action is being carried out on private property and that action is not against public policy (a law specifically stating masks do not have to be worn), I would think because masks are considered health related, the hotels/timeshares are within their rights to require masks be worn.

To challenge this in a court of law is just plain frivolous.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:39 am 
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arubajoey wrote:
Since you are in Aruba are the locals wearing masks when in public.


It seems the use of face masks declines with distance from the tourist area.

In the hotels, most (all?) staff wear face masks or shields.

In the restaurants nearby (for example, Gianni's), most of the _servers_ wear masks, but I don't think all the rest of the staff does (unless they are coming by your table).

Farther inland (for example, Bingo's), none of the staff wore masks.

In terms of people "out and about", I'm chagrined to say that no, the average person is NOT wearing a face mask.

Amongst the locals, the attitude seems to be "we'll wear masks when there is local transmission", which seems to me to be a bit like putting on a condom AFTER you've finished...

For the tourists, they apparently see Aruba as a magical place (it is) where there is no chance of getting sick (it isn't), so they're all enjoying waving their naked faces about, remembering the "good old days" of Jan/Feb 2020.

I've been suggesting/talking about/(apparently) "preaching" the idea that everyone should wear a mask NOW (as is recommended by many major health organizations around the world), but I fear I am a lone masked voice in the windy wilderness...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:45 am 
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dutchdushi wrote:
I wonder if this holds up in court. You can’t just bypass Aruban law. Aruba, as part of the Dutch Kingdom, must uphold the Dutch Constitution. As this is a breach of privacy, you can’t force people to wear masks if this is not put down in general law or in a special temporary crisis law made my the government. Aruba does not follow CDC, they follow the RIVM and the OMT in the Netherlands. Although we now have the rule that in certain circumstances mayors can order wearing facemask (although some specialists in law say this will not hold up in court as it is against the Constitution), it is only them who can give this order. Not private companies. This could become interesting!


Hi, DutchDushi. Yes, I know that Aruba doesn't follow the CDC rules, but I was hoping the RIVM would follow (or at least take into account) the current WHO recommendations.

While I understand worrying about "personal freedom and liberty", I hope no one chooses to challenge this law (or if they do, that the challenge moves, as many things on Aruba do, "poco poco" (slowly) through the system).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:22 am 
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What’s the big f——n deal. Do I like wearing a mask? No! Do I like having to remember to have a mask with me all the time No! Do I know if the mask does anything to protect me and others No!

Do I feel the government is infringing on my God given rights to freedoms. Yes! But what else is new.

But I will carry a mask, wear it when requested and not yell at those who don’t. One of our inalienable rights is to be an ass...e. Unfortunately with Covid-19 not wearing one puts some people at risk.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:15 am 
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casadelmar wrote:
dutchdushi wrote:
I wonder if this holds up in court. You can’t just bypass Aruban law. Aruba, as part of the Dutch Kingdom, must uphold the Dutch Constitution. As this is a breach of privacy, you can’t force people to wear masks if this is not put down in general law or in a special temporary crisis law made my the government. Aruba does not follow CDC, they follow the RIVM and the OMT in the Netherlands. Although we now have the rule that in certain circumstances mayors can order wearing facemask (although some specialists in law say this will not hold up in court as it is against the Constitution), it is only them who can give this order. Not private companies. This could become interesting!


No shoes, No shirts, No masks, No Service.

The issue, regardless of any country’s laws, would be if there is something specific regarding that one cannot mandate actions when that action is being carried out on private property and that action is not against public policy (a law specifically stating masks do not have to be worn), I would think because masks are considered health related, the hotels/timeshares are within their rights to require masks be worn.

To challenge this in a court of law is just plain frivolous.


There is also no law that mandate that you have to wear a mask. It is the world upside down if private companies are making the law. Private property will not give you the rights to act against the law of a country. So hotels are not in their right if they mandate their guests to wear masks. I am very curious to see how the Aruban government will act on this issue.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:35 am 
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dutchdushi wrote:
casadelmar wrote:
dutchdushi wrote:
I wonder if this holds up in court. You can’t just bypass Aruban law. Aruba, as part of the Dutch Kingdom, must uphold the Dutch Constitution. As this is a breach of privacy, you can’t force people to wear masks if this is not put down in general law or in a special temporary crisis law made my the government. Aruba does not follow CDC, they follow the RIVM and the OMT in the Netherlands. Although we now have the rule that in certain circumstances mayors can order wearing facemask (although some specialists in law say this will not hold up in court as it is against the Constitution), it is only them who can give this order. Not private companies. This could become interesting!


No shoes, No shirts, No masks, No Service.

The issue, regardless of any country’s laws, would be if there is something specific regarding that one cannot mandate actions when that action is being carried out on private property and that action is not against public policy (a law specifically stating masks do not have to be worn), I would think because masks are considered health related, the hotels/timeshares are within their rights to require masks be worn.

To challenge this in a court of law is just plain frivolous.


There is also no law that mandate that you have to wear a mask. It is the world upside down if private companies are making the law. Private property will not give you the rights to act against the law of a country. So hotels are not in their right if they mandate their guests to wear masks. I am very curious to see how the Aruban government will act on this issue.


I believe you're missing the point. While there is no law mandating the wearing of a mask as you said, likewise there is no law stating you don't have to wear one. That being the case, a company has a right to establish guidelines in their place of business that does not conflict with existing law, which in this case there appears to be none. If businesses can deny service for no shirts and no shoes, why do you think they cannot mandate the wearing of masks and deny service to those who do not wear them?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:47 am 
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I am not missing the point. As I stated in my original post, forcing visitors to wear facemasks is again the Dutch Constitution. So there is a breach of law. Marriott can not enforce this. If it is taking to court, they will loose.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:16 pm 
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dutchdushi wrote:
I am not missing the point. As I stated in my original post, forcing visitors to wear facemasks is again the Dutch Constitution. So there is a breach of law. Marriott can not enforce this. If it is taking to court, they will loose.

This is a Marriott company-wide mandate on their property. Does this mean that a private enterprise cannot make rules on their own property? Not trying to be combative, just curious. Their new mandate does not consider local laws, just their own company rules.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:24 pm 
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Actually you can make any rule you want, but if somebody is not wanting to follow the rules and brings this to court, it won’t hold. And I wonder what the Aruban government thinks about private companies making their own rules on this subject. I guess we will find out. It could be that nothing happens, but if there is a court case Marriott will probably loose it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:38 pm 
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DD, I'm confused. The Dutch Constitution mentions the wearing of masks? WOW! did they have foresight. Hundreds of years before Covid-19. Did they get the information from Nostrodamus?

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