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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:31 am 
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bryanzs wrote:
arubamikey wrote:
Arubadan wrote:
Arubagal, don't believe the numbers you are hearing from the states. They are all a bunch of lies and greatly inflated. Yes the virus is real, but nowhere as bad as they want you to think. That being said, I am out. Not for fear of virus, because of all the non-sense required to travel right now.


I feel the same way


OK, I _know_ I am going to regret this, but...

Can you tell me why "they" (whoever "they" are) would be making up the severity of the situation, or even more importantly, how "they" can be doing this worldwide? Are all of "them" involved in planning this, a conspiracy of global news organizations in every country, every country's medical establishment, and don't forget all those folks who are just pretending to have died?


The numbers are not even close to being accurate. Few examples, someone comes in with cracked rib, xray is done to confirm....MARKED PROBABLE COVID.....10 year old nephew goes for strep throat, bill comes in mail, PROBABLE COVID, friends father passed from a massive heart attack, DEATH CERTIFICATE SAYS HE DIED FROM COVID. I can keep going. The system has been set up to PAY anyone coming in contact with a covid patient additional funds (way more than insurance pays), so what do you think is happening? IMO, the numbers are probably off by 40-50%. There are plenty of other reasons for the numbers to be inflated but I won't get into that here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:53 am 
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God bless everyone here for treating this sensitive topic with civility and being respectful of others and their concerns.
I would have bet it to be a sure thing that this thread would have been locked by now.
I'm in. YES, I will go if I can get my wife on a plane.( I have said this before.....). Both of us are not high risk, and we never really let any of the previous scares that made the media go crazy change our decision to go to Aruba.

I did read the info on the Allianz website and it does seem that some aspects of their travel policy would apply to Covid. Not 100% that this will satisfy all concerned, but we travel in Oct, so there is plenty of time to get that sorted out.

Quoting the NH State Surgeon General (Loosely), as more and more testing is done here they expect the numbers will continue to go up. Tests are now readily available for all that want them. What they are keeping a close eye on is hospitalizations and deaths in the general public. The Gov has already said that if those figures spike then they can take additional measures including a return of the Stay Home thing.

I do know that if you die of old age the nursing homes get nothing other than an empty bed they can fill. Die of "Covid" and the money flows like water......for testing/staffing/cleaning etc etc.....

We might want to take a close look going forward at how our elderly and vulnerable populations are treated in the lower budget (read Medicare/Medicaid) facilities we stick them in........(WAY WAY OFF THE ARUBA TOPIC HERE-sorry)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:23 am 
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The numbers are not even close to being accurate. Few examples, someone comes in with cracked rib, xray is done to confirm....MARKED PROBABLE COVID.....10 year old nephew goes for strep throat, bill comes in mail, PROBABLE COVID, friends father passed from a massive heart attack, DEATH CERTIFICATE SAYS HE DIED FROM COVID. I can keep going. The system has been set up to PAY anyone coming in contact with a covid patient additional funds (way more than insurance pays), so what do you think is happening? IMO, the numbers are probably off by 40-50%. There are plenty of other reasons for the numbers to be inflated but I won't get into that here.[/quote]

According to your theory of padding the numbers then it's safe to say that with this coming flu season we will have 65 million flu cases turned into Covid 19 . If we add that to the already padded numbers then we will be close to 100 million cases of Covid 19 or more world wide ? I'm not being funny I'm keeping an open mind . On the other side I'm hearing that numbers are being suppressed and there are much more Covid 19 cases , millions not reported . Who is right ? I don't know . What are the chances that boarders will close during the winter with the coming flu season ? Will we be refunded plane tickets and timeshare fees or hotels if everything gets canceled ? Regarding the in or out for now I'm IN ! And will be until the government tells me I'm OUT :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:25 am 
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I would be a yes if my dates had worked out and if I could get the testing done prior. We own 3 weeks of which I should be enjoying the middle of those weeks right now. I have flown recently and felt very comfortable with the protocols in place. The airports were extremely quiet compared to pre COVID-19. Honestly Aruba feels safer than most places in the US at this time. Unfortunately though I won’t be going to Aruba now until 2021 due to set timeshare weeks and a work schedule that only allows travel during the school year breaks.

For the record I am not a huge risk taker where COVID-19 is involved. I wear masks when out and constantly sanitize my hands. I have been socially distancing for months now but realistically know that we will be living with this virus for a long time. I am at an age that I am not willing to just let life pass me by. With that said though I have a close friend and a sister in law that had Covid and fortunately neither needed respirators. They were both sicker than they have ever been. I respect those that won’t travel at this time.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:27 am 
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Arubadan wrote:
bryanzs wrote:
arubamikey wrote:
Arubadan wrote:
Arubagal, don't believe the numbers you are hearing from the states. They are all a bunch of lies and greatly inflated. Yes the virus is real, but nowhere as bad as they want you to think. That being said, I am out. Not for fear of virus, because of all the non-sense required to travel right now.


I feel the same way


OK, I _know_ I am going to regret this, but...

Can you tell me why "they" (whoever "they" are) would be making up the severity of the situation, or even more importantly, how "they" can be doing this worldwide? Are all of "them" involved in planning this, a conspiracy of global news organizations in every country, every country's medical establishment, and don't forget all those folks who are just pretending to have died?


The numbers are not even close to being accurate. Few examples, someone comes in with cracked rib, xray is done to confirm....MARKED PROBABLE COVID.....10 year old nephew goes for strep throat, bill comes in mail, PROBABLE COVID, friends father passed from a massive heart attack, DEATH CERTIFICATE SAYS HE DIED FROM COVID. I can keep going. The system has been set up to PAY anyone coming in contact with a covid patient additional funds (way more than insurance pays), so what do you think is happening? IMO, the numbers are probably off by 40-50%. There are plenty of other reasons for the numbers to be inflated but I won't get into that here.


You still have not told us who "they'" is. What is your source, where is this printed?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:35 am 
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Happy, no need to lock this thread. There is a lot of good info coming from it, whether you agree or disagree with it. No way everyone will agree with everything. This is the world we are living in at the moment.


Jaccli, this is not some crazy conspiracy theory, this is FACT and what is actually happening here. And yes, if you look at the stats, once covid was here, Flu cases were almost nill in the mists of one of the worst flu seasons in years. Anytime the almighty dollar is involved, corruption will occur. And by the way, don't even think of trying to report the corruption going on because you will be fired before you complete the sentence!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:38 am 
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[

You still have not told us who "they'" is. What is your source, where is this printed? [/quote][/quote][/quote]

Printed? :lol: :lol: Ask anyone in the medical, insurance, autopsy fields and they will tell you.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:53 am 
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Well, here in the Netherlands there is no real incentive to boost the numbers. So I do trust them, and they are high.

As for the mortality rate. We had a significant higher rate for several weeks, but a lower one after COVID infections slowed down. This also happens after a bad flu season. I think we can only tell in the long run if mortality because of COVID will be higher or not. Any way, I will avoid every risk I can to get it. It sure is no joke and it can be much, much worse than a flu.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:21 am 
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Arubadan wrote:
[

You still have not told us who "they'" is. What is your source, where is this printed?
[/quote][/quote]

Printed? :lol: :lol: Ask anyone in the medical, insurance, autopsy fields and they will tell you.[/quote]
I've read stories online (of course, not in the fake news media) where groups of doctors have complained that they were instructed to write in COVID 19 as cause of death without even testing. Medical examiners have said that they were also instructed to list deaths as COVID 19 without proof. The main purpose of the lockdown was to not overwhelm the hospitals - the hospitals were never overwhelmed - Trump sent a Hospital ship to NY, beds were set up in the Javits center, Samaritan's Purse set up a field hospital in Central Park - all were mostly empty. Regular folks went driving around to check out the "crowded" hospitals - no lines at all & empty waiting rooms - some of those folks were chased away by security guards when they were trying to film. CBS was caught faking long lines at a testing center in Michigan by getting the hospital staff to get in their cars and getting in lines. The models used to predict cases & deaths were as faulty as the climate change models. One of the modelers in the UK (Neil Ferguson) admitted that his model didn't work well - he predicted 90,000 people would die in Sweden if they didn't do the lockdown - well, they didn't lockdown & the deaths there were around 4000 last time I checked.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:34 am 
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dutchdushi wrote:
Well, here in the Netherlands there is no real incentive to boost the numbers. So I do trust them, and they are high.

As for the mortality rate. We had a significant higher rate for several weeks, but a lower one after COVID infections slowed down. This also happens after a bad flu season. I think we can only tell in the long run if mortality because of COVID will be higher or not. Any way, I will avoid every risk I can to get it. It sure is no joke and it can be much, much worse than a flu.


Hi, Ingrid. Thanks for your information (and your work with those who are ill).

The question we have to ask of the current statistics is, while the number of TESTS are increasing (...and that's a good thing), what is the percentage of POSITIVE cases found in those tests? If the ratio of positive results is staying level, then that means the virus is under control. Unfortunately, in a number of states in the US, the ratio of positive cases has been climbing since the "reopening" of everything. See for example this article about Utah or this article more broadly.

And for those of you in this thread who believe the numbers are being inflated...please take some time and take a look at this article by statistics site FiveThirtyEight.com which explains why the number of COVID-19 deaths are almost certainly UNDER counted. You can also read the collective estimates of experts as to where infection and death rates are heading.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:36 am 
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Arubadan wrote:

You still have not told us who "they'" is. What is your source, where is this printed?

Printed? :lol: :lol: Ask anyone in the medical, insurance, autopsy fields and they will tell you.


Ah, with irrefutable sources like "anyone", how can one argue?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:50 am 
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ann wrote:
Once again it is a tricky year to travel. Not sure what you mean by sub par equipment. At least here you can get tested...unlike many states in the USA. Anyhow, coincidentally I just read a brief article concerning getting the regular flu shot this fall....

The CDC estimates that from Oct. 1, 2019, through April 4, 2020, there were up to 56 million cases of the flu, with 740,000 hospitalizations and up to 62,000 deaths.

Covid 19 deaths are currently over a hundred thousand.

Sorry Ann I should have elaborated on sub par equipment. When the doctor did an ekg on me, he said everything is fine. When they did it when I got back home, doctor said you need to get to your heart doctor like now! I think what a lot of people are missing is you won’t know if you even have it when you test positive when you get there, bye,bye vacation.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:00 am 
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The real question is if you test negative and have Covid 19 . There will be false negatives so it's safe to say Aruba's cases will increase .


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:39 am 
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Hi, Bryan,
All of your back and forth with AJ has been quite interesting to say the least.

BUT, there are a load of stats and info that you posted with solid confidence. So confident it sounds like you've taken that info from some source be it on line or in some published official authorized news outlet.

Except for that stirring announcement of June 11 I have seen or read nothing from any authority or official.

If there is such an authority or official posting stating all those confident stats and info I, along with thousands of other potential travelers to Aruba would love to read those official notes.

And I sincerely thank you for taking so much of your time to inform all of us in this BB. Local info is hard to obtain and you provide a lot for us.
TYVM!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:50 am 
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leftyjy wrote:
Hi, Bryan,
All of your back and forth with AJ has been quite interesting to say the least.

BUT, there are a load of stats and info that you posted with solid confidence. So confident it sounds like you've taken that info from some source be it on line or in some published official authorized news outlet.

Except for that stirring announcement of June 11 I have seen or read nothing from any authority or official.

If there is such an authority or official posting stating all those confident stats and info I, along with thousands of other potential travelers to Aruba would love to read those official notes.

And I sincerely thank you for taking so much of your time to inform all of us in this BB. Local info is hard to obtain and you provide a lot for us.
TYVM!!


Hi, Lefyjy. Which stats and information in particular are you looking for references for? As you said, there has been a lot of back and forth!

Let me know what you want more information about and I'll see what I can find out.


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