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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:54 pm 
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Hi, Joey.

I will attempt to answer some of your questions. *deep breath* This is going to be a long post...

arubajoey wrote:
Does the hospital have enough ICU space, doctors, PPE's, respirators, etc.

Is Aruba prepared for an out break?


No. No it doesn't, and what these requirements are is the attempt to prepare for an outbreak - and head it off at the pass.

That's why Aruba is asking you to take the tests and get results before you come. Everyone is complaining about the impossibility (or inconvenience) of that, though, so that's why there's the back up plan of testing here and then staying in quarantine in your hotel room until the results come back.

ARUBA DOES NOT WANT YOUR INSURANCE MONEY. BUT ARUBA DOES NOT WANT YOU TO COME HERE SICK, AND ESPECIALLY ARUBA DOES NOT YOU TO COME HERE AND MAKE EVERYONE ELSE SICK.


arubajoey wrote:
What if I am asystomatic?


That's why the tests are mandated; many are asymptomatic. Asymptomatic (or low symptom) carriers still show positive results on the PCR test.

But wait, I hear you saying, what if I get sick after the test? That's why the test is supposed to happen RIGHT BEFORE the trip (although everyone is also yelling that right before the trip there's not enough time to get the results...)

"But I can take the test, and have negative results, and still be sick!" Yes, that's true. And so when you're here on the island, and you pass the virus on to others, and THEY feel ill (because not everyone is asymptomatic), then they have already signed a promise to notify the front desk who will contact the hospital and arrange for testing. And if they find a "cluster" of people who are sick, they will (through contact tracing) eventually come and find you by the pool.


arubajoey wrote:
As comet07 reported what if I have my own coverage and it's from a reputable company?


If you and Mrs ArubaJoey have your own insurance that covers you, great. And you're sure it pays direct to the hospital, or the government, or the doctors if you get sick in Aruba? Or you can put together $50,000 (or more) to cover your medical bills and THEN get reimbursed?

And even if that is all true for you - is that true for everyone? Is that true for everyone who loudly will proclaim, "I have insurance and don't need to pay this"? Or is there the chance - just the slightest, smallest chance - that MAYBE some people will claim to have enough insurance, or money in hand, so they don't have to pay the "outrageous" $15/day "tax"?

Here's the bottom line - Aruba cannot afford to care for everyone IN ARUBA. In fact, as a condition of Dutch loans, the Aruba government has been mandated to cut Afl 35 MILLION florins (that's US$20 million) from the health care costs THIS YEAR - yes, this year, the year of the pandemic, the year when no one on the island has work. So if the island has to cut care for its own residents, it should "take everyones word" that their insurance is good, or that they will come up with the money out of pocket? Or alternatively, the government should hire teams of investigators to make sure that everyone who claims to have a valid medical insurance policy, that will cover them for COVID care, does indeed have that policy, and it does provide the claimed coverage?

arubajoey wrote:
It has to be even clear to the "sky is falling" people that the vast majority of the world population of 7.8 Billion people which has reported 8 million confirmed cases and 440,000 deaths that not everyone is going to get it a die.


Yes, not everyone is going to die. It's much better odds that you will survive this than playing Russian roulette, even. The mortality rate is currently .28%, so only 3x as deadly as the flu. And of course, being young and healthy, all visitors to Aruba (and all residents of Aruba) need not worry about something so obviously harmless.

Oh, and those people who are more at risk? Eh, forget them. They're old and sick already.

arubajoey wrote:
If you think that wearing gloves then masks and staying 6 feet apart was or is the answer to why more in the world didn't get it then I have a bridge and some swamp land in Florida for sale just for you.


I can't understand folks who are proposing that measures to reduce infection are "overblown", or worse, the successes of such measures are made up. For a virus that spreads mainly from infected fluid reaching the lungs, you might think, hey, maybe if I could stop fluid droplets from leaving my mouth and nose, or stop fluid droplets from getting into my mouth and nose, or stand far enough away that such droplets dissipate before reaching vulnerable body openings, that might be a good thing. But no, it's just "tin foil hat" ideas to think that - instead, it's much more reasonable to believe that all medical professionals are having secret meetings to plan how they're going to spend the big killing in PPE stocks that they're making...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:58 pm 
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arubamikey wrote:
Arubadan wrote:
Arubagal, don't believe the numbers you are hearing from the states. They are all a bunch of lies and greatly inflated. Yes the virus is real, but nowhere as bad as they want you to think. That being said, I am out. Not for fear of virus, because of all the non-sense required to travel right now.


I feel the same way


OK, I _know_ I am going to regret this, but...

Can you tell me why "they" (whoever "they" are) would be making up the severity of the situation, or even more importantly, how "they" can be doing this worldwide? Are all of "them" involved in planning this, a conspiracy of global news organizations in every country, every country's medical establishment, and don't forget all those folks who are just pretending to have died?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:31 pm 
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I just checked with the Nova Scotia Health Authority (I know I am the only one here :wink: ) but At this time I cannot get a test without one symptom. Not something I am willing to lie about to get the test. I wonder if my travel insurance will cover me cuz Aruba changed the rules after I bought my ticket :? I also have a question into Aruba.com Travel Health if I provide a covid clear test before arrival, which I now know I can’t do and one person tests positive from the plane, are they going to pick me up at my resort two days later and quarantine the whole plane or at least take us all away for tests? I get it, I understand it, I just wished I hadn’t rebooked until I saw all the new rules. Perhaps if the airlines can’t sell tickets without covid free tests, they may expedite the availability of tests at ‘home’. As everyone has already said, a lot of moving parts and we need to wait until June 25th at the least to get some answers. At this point an additional $15/day seems to be the least of my worries.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:33 pm 
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bryanzs wrote:
Hi, Joey.

I will attempt to answer some of your questions. *deep breath* This is going to be a long post...

arubajoey wrote:
Does the hospital have enough ICU space, doctors, PPE's, respirators, etc.

Is Aruba prepared for an out break?


No. No it doesn't, and what these requirements are is the attempt to prepare for an outbreak - and head it off at the pass.

NO? Thanks I feel so much better.

That's why Aruba is asking you to take the tests and get results before you come. Everyone is complaining about the impossibility (or inconvenience) of that, though, so that's why there's the back up plan of testing here and then staying in quarantine in your hotel room until the results come back.

ARUBA DOES NOT WANT YOUR INSURANCE MONEY. BUT ARUBA DOES NOT WANT YOU TO COME HERE SICK, AND ESPECIALLY ARUBA DOES NOT YOU TO COME HERE AND MAKE EVERYONE ELSE SICK.

What happened to the "when you arrive we will take your temp, if you have one they (ARUBA) will give a quick test and in one hour have the results. Positive you go into quarantine. If you get worst then you will be hospitalized.

This way Aruba will have the most up to date information


arubajoey wrote:
What if I am asystomatic?


That's why the tests are mandated; many are asymptomatic. Asymptomatic (or low symptom) carriers still show positive results on the PCR test.

But wait, I hear you saying, what if I get sick after the test? That's why the test is supposed to happen RIGHT BEFORE the trip (although everyone is also yelling that right before the trip there's not enough time to get the results...)

"But I can take the test, and have negative results, and still be sick!" Yes, that's true. And so when you're here on the island, and you pass the virus on to others, and THEY feel ill (because not everyone is asymptomatic), then they have already signed a promise to notify the front desk who will contact the hospital and arrange for testing. And if they find a "cluster" of people who are sick, they will (through contact tracing) eventually come and find you by the pool.


arubajoey wrote:
As comet07 reported what if I have my own coverage and it's from a reputable company?


If you and Mrs ArubaJoey have your own insurance that covers you, great. And you're sure it pays direct to the hospital, or the government, or the doctors if you get sick in Aruba? Or you can put together $50,000 (or more) to cover your medical bills and THEN get reimbursed?

So if I have the Aruba insurance as I check out of the hospital there will be a person handing over $50,000 (or more) at the cashier. SURE!

And even if that is all true for you - is that true for everyone? Is that true for everyone who loudly will proclaim, "I have insurance and don't need to pay this"? Or is there the chance - just the slightest, smallest chance - that MAYBE some people will claim to have enough insurance, or money in hand, so they don't have to pay the "outrageous" $15/day "tax"?

It's not a tax it's a money maker

Some of the richest companies in the world are Insurance companies. Why? They take in more then they have to pay out. If 2,000 people enter Aruba on any given day/week they pay $30. a day in just 7 days that is grab you calculator to check me it's "HOLY S--T that much" a week to Aruba. But no ArubaJoey, Aruba doesn't want my insurance money.



Here's the bottom line - Aruba cannot afford to care for everyone IN ARUBA. In fact, as a condition of Dutch loans, the Aruba government has been mandated to cut Afl 35 MILLION florins (that's US$20 million) from the health care costs THIS YEAR - yes, this year, the year of the pandemic, the year when no one on the island has work. So if the island has to cut care for its own residents, it should "take everyones word" that their insurance is good, or that they will come up with the money out of pocket? Or alternatively, the government should hire teams of investigators to make sure that everyone who claims to have a valid medical insurance policy, that will cover them for COVID care, does indeed have that policy, and it does provide the claimed coverage?

Now it makes sense. The visitors will make up Aruba's insurance shortfall. Yes my friend Aruba does want my insurance money

arubajoey wrote:
It has to be even clear to the "sky is falling" people that the vast majority of the world population of 7.8 Billion people which has reported 8 million confirmed cases and 440,000 deaths that not everyone is going to get it a die.


Yes, not everyone is going to die. It's much better odds that you will survive this than playing Russian roulette, even.

No, that is only a one in six chance. Better to say playing Russian roulette with no bullets.

The mortality rate is currently .28%, so only 3x as deadly as the flu. And of course, being young and healthy, all visitors to Aruba (and all residents of Aruba) need not worry about something so obviously harmless.

Oh, and those people who are more at risk? Eh, forget them. They're old and sick already. No but they are the ones who should either not go or have to take the insurance and likely will anyway

arubajoey wrote:
If you think that wearing gloves then masks and staying 6 feet apart was or is the answer to why more in the world didn't get it then I have a bridge and some swamp land in Florida for sale just for you.


I can't understand folks who are proposing that measures to reduce infection are "overblown", or worse, the successes of such measures are made up. For a virus that spreads mainly from infected fluid reaching the lungs, you might think, hey, maybe if I could stop fluid droplets from leaving my mouth and nose, or stop fluid droplets from getting into my mouth and nose, or stand far enough away that such droplets dissipate before reaching vulnerable body openings, that might be a good thing. But no, it's just "tin foil hat" ideas to think that - instead, it's much more reasonable to believe that all medical professionals are having secret meetings to plan how they're going to spend the big killing in PPE stocks that they're making...


Bottom line is more people have and will die this year from any of the following the regular flu, heart conditions, cancer, diabetes, obesity then will ever die of Covid-19 or Covid 20 to 30.



What about the people who arrive on the Petri dish cruise ships. Will they have to pay $30.00 for the day they are on Aruba and/or will they be tested before they can leave the ship and walk around the same town I go to and beach I lounge at.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:00 pm 
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Hi, Joey. Thanks for your response.

arubajoey wrote:
(In response to this question:)
Does the hospital have enough ICU space, doctors, PPE's, respirators, etc.

Is Aruba prepared for an out break?
(I answered:)

No. No it doesn't, and what these requirements are is the attempt to prepare for an outbreak - and head it off at the pass.

NO? Thanks I feel so much better.


I'm not trying to make you feel better. My mistake, I thought you wanted real info, not just reassurance.

The real answer is no, Aruba cannot handle a major outbreak. There are 33 freakin' ICU beds. How long do you think it will take to fill them up?

arubajoey wrote:
What happened to the "when you arrive we will take your temp, if you have one they (ARUBA) will give a quick test and in one hour have the results. Positive you go into quarantine. If you get worst then you will be hospitalized.

This way Aruba will have the most up to date information



The temperature check doesn't do anything, it just makes everyone feel better because it LOOKS like they're doing something. The quick test, and the test in the US before you travel, are the key. But the quick test is the "backstop" - if you're already here in Aruba, it's almost already too late. But what else can the government do? MAKE you take the test before travel? Then everyone will complain about how hard that is to do, and how it doesn't do anything anyway, and I have an aunt who has a friend whose neighbor took a test and then got sick anyway so why bother?

arubajoey wrote:
So if I have the Aruba insurance as I check out of the hospital there will be a person handing over $50,000 (or more) at the cashier. SURE!


Hard as it may be to believe, yes, that's what a long term hospitalization costs. The last US patient in Aruba who was hospitalized for COVID-19 was in the hospital for 40 days. How much does a 40 day hospital stay cost in NY?

arubajoey wrote:
Some of the richest companies in the world are Insurance companies. Why? They take in more then they have to pay out. If 2,000 people enter Aruba on any given day/week they pay $30. a day in just 7 days that is grab you calculator to check me it's "HOLY S--T that much" a week to Aruba. But no ArubaJoey, Aruba doesn't want my insurance money.



Just FYI, it's $15/day. So if you want to calculate that out, it would be $15 * 2000 * 7, not $30.


arubajoey wrote:
Bottom line is more people have and will die this year from any of the following the regular flu, heart conditions, cancer, diabetes, obesity then will ever die of Covid-19 or Covid 20 to 30.


I'm not certain what the point of that comparison would be, even if I look it up. "Hey, we can line up 200,000 people and kill them this year - it's not a problem because more people will die from cancers". Just because other things cause as many deaths doesn't mean we should go merrily about our business and say, well, other things are bad so this thing that we CAN try to control we should just let run free. This is something that we can (and in my opinion should) TRY to reduce and contain, regardless of what other causes of death exist. For me, and I imagine for many others, it's preferable that we not die if we don't have to quite yet...?

arubajoey wrote:
What about the people who arrive on the Petri dish cruise ships. Will they have to pay $30.00 for the day they are on Aruba and/or will they be tested before they can leave the ship and walk around the same town I go to and beach I lounge at.


Unless you have an inside source in the government telling you more than has been revealed, as far as I know, it hasn't been decided yet WHAT to do with them. Trust me, we're all as worried about them as you are...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:07 pm 
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Reading all this, I am wondering if it wouldn’t be better if Aruba followed the advice the OMT gave on 6/3 not to open the island to tourists from the US and Latin American countries. We wouldn’t have all this bitching about Aruba wanting to keep some rules.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:24 pm 
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dutchdushi wrote:
Reading all this, I am wondering if it wouldn’t be better if Aruba followed the advice the OMT gave on 6/3 not to open the island to tourists from the US and Latin American countries. We wouldn’t have all this bitching about Aruba wanting to keep some rules.


Agreed! And if everyone in Aruba was wealthy and didn't have to work, that would be the ideal situation. But unfortunately this is not the ideal world, and salary support can end at any time soon :-(


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:19 pm 
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Yesterday Canada just received another 2 months of salary support and kept it's boarders closed .


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:59 pm 
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Seems to me everyone got sidetracked on the question :lol: OUT! Not worth the BS when you get there and you test positive from one of their sub par pieces of equipment, stay home this year.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:05 pm 
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Once again it is a tricky year to travel. Not sure what you mean by sub par equipment. At least here you can get tested...unlike many states in the USA. Anyhow, coincidentally I just read a brief article concerning getting the regular flu shot this fall....

The CDC estimates that from Oct. 1, 2019, through April 4, 2020, there were up to 56 million cases of the flu, with 740,000 hospitalizations and up to 62,000 deaths.

Covid 19 deaths are currently over a hundred thousand.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:14 pm 
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ann wrote:
Once again it is a tricky year to travel. Not sure what you mean by sub par equipment. At least here you can get tested...unlike many states in the USA. Anyhow, coincidentally I just read a brief article concerning getting the regular flu shot this fall....

The CDC estimates that from Oct. 1, 2019, through April 4, 2020, there were up to 56 million cases of the flu, with 740,000 hospitalizations and up to 62,000 deaths.

Covid 19 deaths are currently over a hundred thousand.

So they say Ann, you do know how much a hospital In the US gets for a Covid19 death? You forget, I went to a doctor last year in Aruba for severe chest pains and he blamed it on smoking and gave me the wrong medicine. I had an artery 99% clogged and he had no clue! I was in the hospital the next day in surgery in the US when I got home, NO I have no faith in the doctors there.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:41 pm 
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You have made a good decision Ronnie. It is best for you not to travel this year! As for me... I have the reverse problem :wink: Not too secure in getting on a plane and going to NH where the numbers are going down but once summer season starts we will be swarmed with people from other states! :shock:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:11 pm 
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Bryanzs, I will ask again. What does my $15.and day $30 for me and Mrs AJ. cover.

With any number of visitors and Arubans on the island how will they divide up the 33 beds and obviously very limited resources. Will it be Arubans first?

So my $15.00 a day gets me hospital care as long as I am not patient 34 or beyond.

If I get Covid-19 mild case where do I go to be quarantined. Will the Divi Phoenix allow me to stay on the property. Are resorts going to or have to create quarantine rooms or floors and what staff will be dedicated to those areas. Will my $15.00 cover the extra days I may have to stay on the island to stay in quarantine.

Bryanzs, I have my air, resort, car rental booked from November 30th to December 14th. If I have to get tests before and during and bring a ream of paperwork I will. I am hopeful that by around September Aruba will be able to tighten up and come up with a visitor friendly policy. The $15.00 per day "tax" is not the answer. It's a money maker.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:34 pm 
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arubajoey wrote:
Bryanzs, I will ask again. What does my $15.and day $30 for me and Mrs AJ. cover.

With any number of visitors and Arubans on the island how will they divide up the 33 beds and obviously very limited resources. Will it be Arubans first?

So my $15.00 a day gets me hospital care as long as I am not patient 34 or beyond.

If I get Covid-19 mild case where do I go to be quarantined. Will the Divi Phoenix allow me to stay on the property. Are resorts going to or have to create quarantine rooms or floors and what staff will be dedicated to those areas. Will my $15.00 cover the extra days I may have to stay on the island to stay in quarantine.

Bryanzs, I have my air, resort, car rental booked from November 30th to December 14th. If I have to get tests before and during and bring a ream of paperwork I will. I am hopeful that by around September Aruba will be able to tighten up and come up with a visitor friendly policy. The $15.00 per day "tax" is not the answer. It's a money maker.



Hi, Joey.

Fortunately for Aruba, the island's medical care system hasn't had to face the imminent collapse that NY, for example, managed to avoid (and other states, like Arizona, still seem to be approaching). What happens when any of the medical systems get overwhelmed? It's not a rhetorical question - I've no idea what would happen here. But don't you agree, then, that we should do everything in our power to avoid finding out?

I know how much you enjoy coming to the island. And (appearances to the contrary) we _want_ you to come. But if we can do ANYTHING to prevent those 34 ICU beds from filling up, with a waiting list of 1,000 more sick and dying people, don't you think we should try?

Short of overwhelming the system, your $15/day payment is supposed to pay for you (and the lovely Mrs. ArubaJoey, if and only if she is infected as well) at a special quarantine hotel. No, it's not likely to be the Phoenix - to be honest, the government has not (and probably will not) publicize the location, since they want to avoid N.I.M.B.Y. reactions in the neighborhoods of these "infection hotels." But it's supposed to cover your care, there, and your food and beverages (probably not top shelf), and your hospitalization for as long as you need it to get better. It won't arrange for you to have extra time off from work during your quarantine (if you still work), it won't negotiate with your boss for extra vacation, but it will cover the costs HERE in Aruba until you get better.

As to whether or not it's designed to be a money-maker for the government - to be honest, how would I know? They failed to include me in their text chat group, so I don't know how they're splitting up the money. But if _I_ were building this as a "tax scheme", I don't think I'd be so willing to tell everyone that I'm also considering letting you use your own insurance, and/or capping it for long-stay visitors - I would insist on it, no exception, no negotiation. That doesn't _seem_ to be what they're doing, though, so why not wait another 9 days and see if the government can come up with something more palatable?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:05 am 
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I was very involved with the preparations of corona units and hotels in the Netherlands. Fortunately, we didn’t have to use the hotels, as numbers didn’t rise this high. Since Aruba is part of the Dutch Kingdom, I guess they will follow the same system.

So what are these hotels for? They are either for people who get COVID but don’t have a place to stay (their home) or can’t stay at their home and are not sick enough to need hospital care, or who are well enough to leave the hospital but can’t go home yet or who are very ill, will die but don’t want or can’t go to hospital. Since tourists on the average will not own a home, they will be transported to such a place once they get ill.

In these hotels there will be trained doctors and nursus that will take care of you. You will have to stay in your room 24/7, will get treatment, care and food. Nobody will be allowed to visit you, apart from a very small number of people if you are dying. Everybody will wear protective clothes and be covered up.

That is what your $ 15 a day will get you. And since I was the one who did the calculation, I can tell you it is a bargain. As the cost is about $ 1500 a person a day without medicines and medical systems.

I can understand Ronnie with his experience that he thinks the medical system is sub par. But even in the States they make mistakes. Most of the doctors and nurses got their medical training in the Netherlands. I will not boost we have the best health system in the world (we don’t), but it is a one of the better. You will be in good hands, but if numbers get up, also overwhelmed hands. If there are too many people getting ill, the Dutch army will come with docters, nurses and extra ICU’s. But there is a limit to what we can do.

So if you want to take the risk, go for it. But don’t complain it comes with a cost.


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